I got VERY excited to answer that poll! And comment wheeee I have so many feelings about this!
I’m 45 and I think it has just gotten worse and worse for this (gestures vaguely around) - ‘image over EVERYTHING’ ie sensation, pleasure, intimacy, safety....
Oh consumerism and patriarchy.. Disguised as ‘no I LIKE this’ .. me too, when I have had a partner who wanted my hair a certain way.. I changed it.
I remember years ago finding the 60s copy of ‘the joy of sex’ in my parents bookshelf and marveling at the pics of pubic hair that it celebrated- on women! Celebrated!!!
I remember the first time I realized I am also supposed to hate my large labia. I didn’t know! Ohhh this voluntary snip and trim is for pleasure right?
I once got a compliment on my large labia and, while I always love a compliment, I was just utterly confused. I had no idea that this was a thing that some people thought was undesirable, or that size "mattered" wrt labia or ???
I was, and remain, baffled by the idea that there is some sort of labia beauty standard. Like, if you don't like mine, you are free to just leave. You literally never have to look at it again!
Utterly confusing and baffling is right. An idea of labia beauty standard… exactly, get out of here if you don’t like mine, what are we doing here!? Thank you for your wonderful words. I feel so uplifted knowing there are other humans out there who don’t buy into this, or are trying so hard not to. Xoxo
a guy I used to have a lot of sex with said—often—how much he loved my “porn star vagina.” 🧐
I did not know what he meant and I did not ask, but this was clearly a high compliment as far as he was concerned.
I was in my 30s then. hmm. I wonder what he would say now that I’m older. Not that he will have the opportunity but I do wonder. (My guess is that it would be a big thumbs down.)
ETA: So basically, I think he definitely had a labia standard as well as other standards in that area.
‘Not that he will have the opportunity to wonder’ 😆🥳🙌 yes!!! So well put, he clearly thought that was the best compliment ever! Those ‘porn star vaginas’ must be the gold star labias and they must put other labias to shame! And yes- other standards, more and more things to critique and compliment/disparage.
I’m excited to talk about it too! I read somewhere that there was once an art historian who married a woman and was disgusted on their wedding night because she had pubes that he had never seen in paintings, because artists chose not to depict it. So strange to me, even when it was "in style" before the 1980’s or so, bushes had no place in the classical art pantheon. And on a personal note, when I was in HS early college and thinking about how to have sex with guys, i agonized over whether to shave or not. I ended up not, until an extremely immature guy (whom i haven’t had contact with since 2016, but is unfortunately the love of my life so far) stopped going down on me to theatrically spit hairs for five whole minutes, yelling that I should shave. Anyway, that’s all I’ll say for now, I’ll save the rest for the poll 😂
From your lips to G-d’s ears! I love myself for the first time since early childhood, but it would still be nice to share my kindness with someone I have requited romantic feelings for. In the meantime, I find joy in «Beauty with a Capital B», the kind Jessica contrasts with the «industry of beauty» in her writing 🩷
Answered this poll with pleasure. Despite all the negative messaging about the need to “do something” about having a body that’s not smooth like a dolphin, I somehow never thought about doing anything with my hair growing up. The hair grooming came much, much later. The critical comments from men about what we look like? 🤦🏻♀️ I was shocked when a guy I had just started dating expressed his expectations about pubic hair removal on women. The sexiest thing for me is when a man loves my body exactly as it is. So that was a huge turnoff. Thank you for the opportunity to share and connect on this topic in this wonderful community.
Thankfully, I am aware of / have known men (it’s never come up with women or anyone else for me) who are only turned on by a full bush, so to speak. (Edited my to by.)
But now that makes me wonder if those men had standards about the amount of hair. Like, bushy only up to a certain point? Bushy under a certain point unacceptable? 🧐
as i'm typing on my work computer answering one of the written questions...my internal thoughts were "boy, i hope they (work) don't see what i'm writing" - but then if they do - it's the truth, so oh well :)
I did this monologue a few years ago! At CHURCH (UU, but still)! I was absolutely horrified when I saw that first line, but eventually I got into it. What a hoot to remember, though!
Love this! I will say that some of it was hard for me to answer because my answer changes—when I was still sleeping with cis men I worried about how they would feel about my hair (even if I didn’t let that impact how I styled it) but as someone who only has queer sex now, it’s a non-issue for me and my partners.
I would like to take it, but I I reached a point about 8 years ago where my body hair just stopped generating anymore. Whatever state it was in, it just stayed there.
So my answer to “do you shave / trim / etc” your body hair would be no, but I used to yes. I felt it VERY important at the time.
Is it ok to just explain this at the end — or maybe I shouldn’t take it?
ETA: I feel like this discussion, though I’m enjoying it and finding it’s made me think of some things I haven't thought about for a while, is for those with body hair or without it by choice.
This is not a bad thing. But I feel very old. Rolls eyes at self: 🙄
One more edit to add:
The quote from Eve Ensler/Vagina Monologues—I never saw it, read it, heard it. Are there points where characters/personas talk about older vaginas?
I think you should take the poll!! I know what you mean, my answers have changed over the last 30 years and I answered it how I felt today, and then wrote lots of feelings in this wonderful comment section 🥰
You bring up a really important part of the conversation!!! And it is interesting and matters and I promise you won’t be alone in your feelings and you will share something new and important. Like you just did!
Thanks for sharing that you feel old.. I felt old taking the poll. Like ‘what? Bleach bums?’😆 But that’s ok. Old matters too. Much love to you 💕❤️
Hey, I completed the survey but totally slept on sharing this poll with my friends. Now I see you're no longer accepting submissions. I wondered if the results might be a bit skewed because of your readership base. I know for sure, I am the only one of 10 female first cousins who does not shave her pubic hair. Well, there is 1 cousin who regularly has a bush, but it's because she's so hairy that to keep with beauty she'd probably have to shave twice daily. Aaanyway, very curious to hear the detailed results.
The poll was shared widely outside of this newsletter (nature of the internet!) and got 14k responses from people of all genders — I’m confident in the data and also interviewed national waxing/lasering services for additional data
tell me why I was SO thrilled to fill out this poll…
I got VERY excited to answer that poll! And comment wheeee I have so many feelings about this!
I’m 45 and I think it has just gotten worse and worse for this (gestures vaguely around) - ‘image over EVERYTHING’ ie sensation, pleasure, intimacy, safety....
Oh consumerism and patriarchy.. Disguised as ‘no I LIKE this’ .. me too, when I have had a partner who wanted my hair a certain way.. I changed it.
I remember years ago finding the 60s copy of ‘the joy of sex’ in my parents bookshelf and marveling at the pics of pubic hair that it celebrated- on women! Celebrated!!!
I remember the first time I realized I am also supposed to hate my large labia. I didn’t know! Ohhh this voluntary snip and trim is for pleasure right?
With Love, large labia full bush ❤️
Full bush high five
Yes! 🖐️😆💕
I once got a compliment on my large labia and, while I always love a compliment, I was just utterly confused. I had no idea that this was a thing that some people thought was undesirable, or that size "mattered" wrt labia or ???
I was, and remain, baffled by the idea that there is some sort of labia beauty standard. Like, if you don't like mine, you are free to just leave. You literally never have to look at it again!
Utterly confusing and baffling is right. An idea of labia beauty standard… exactly, get out of here if you don’t like mine, what are we doing here!? Thank you for your wonderful words. I feel so uplifted knowing there are other humans out there who don’t buy into this, or are trying so hard not to. Xoxo
a guy I used to have a lot of sex with said—often—how much he loved my “porn star vagina.” 🧐
I did not know what he meant and I did not ask, but this was clearly a high compliment as far as he was concerned.
I was in my 30s then. hmm. I wonder what he would say now that I’m older. Not that he will have the opportunity but I do wonder. (My guess is that it would be a big thumbs down.)
ETA: So basically, I think he definitely had a labia standard as well as other standards in that area.
‘Not that he will have the opportunity to wonder’ 😆🥳🙌 yes!!! So well put, he clearly thought that was the best compliment ever! Those ‘porn star vaginas’ must be the gold star labias and they must put other labias to shame! And yes- other standards, more and more things to critique and compliment/disparage.
i’m glad you get to document what i call my thighburns for research
lol lol lol
I’m excited to talk about it too! I read somewhere that there was once an art historian who married a woman and was disgusted on their wedding night because she had pubes that he had never seen in paintings, because artists chose not to depict it. So strange to me, even when it was "in style" before the 1980’s or so, bushes had no place in the classical art pantheon. And on a personal note, when I was in HS early college and thinking about how to have sex with guys, i agonized over whether to shave or not. I ended up not, until an extremely immature guy (whom i haven’t had contact with since 2016, but is unfortunately the love of my life so far) stopped going down on me to theatrically spit hairs for five whole minutes, yelling that I should shave. Anyway, that’s all I’ll say for now, I’ll save the rest for the poll 😂
Love this Susannah!! To new loves and wonderful new experiences xoxo ❤️🤗
From your lips to G-d’s ears! I love myself for the first time since early childhood, but it would still be nice to share my kindness with someone I have requited romantic feelings for. In the meantime, I find joy in «Beauty with a Capital B», the kind Jessica contrasts with the «industry of beauty» in her writing 🩷
Ohhh yes I hear you, such a journey to turning some love to ourselves! Yes! The joy in this writing is palpable. Much love to you 💕
Wow. How very strange!
Starting a FWD email chain amongst pals
Answered this poll with pleasure. Despite all the negative messaging about the need to “do something” about having a body that’s not smooth like a dolphin, I somehow never thought about doing anything with my hair growing up. The hair grooming came much, much later. The critical comments from men about what we look like? 🤦🏻♀️ I was shocked when a guy I had just started dating expressed his expectations about pubic hair removal on women. The sexiest thing for me is when a man loves my body exactly as it is. So that was a huge turnoff. Thank you for the opportunity to share and connect on this topic in this wonderful community.
Thankfully, I am aware of / have known men (it’s never come up with women or anyone else for me) who are only turned on by a full bush, so to speak. (Edited my to by.)
But now that makes me wonder if those men had standards about the amount of hair. Like, bushy only up to a certain point? Bushy under a certain point unacceptable? 🧐
as i'm typing on my work computer answering one of the written questions...my internal thoughts were "boy, i hope they (work) don't see what i'm writing" - but then if they do - it's the truth, so oh well :)
I did this monologue a few years ago! At CHURCH (UU, but still)! I was absolutely horrified when I saw that first line, but eventually I got into it. What a hoot to remember, though!
I took the poll 😎
Love this! I will say that some of it was hard for me to answer because my answer changes—when I was still sleeping with cis men I worried about how they would feel about my hair (even if I didn’t let that impact how I styled it) but as someone who only has queer sex now, it’s a non-issue for me and my partners.
The way I rushed to answer this poll. I love my sparse bush, fluffy legs and fuzzy pits.
Along with a student, I've been doing some academic research/thinking on these topics! Will look forward to your article.
I would like to take it, but I I reached a point about 8 years ago where my body hair just stopped generating anymore. Whatever state it was in, it just stayed there.
So my answer to “do you shave / trim / etc” your body hair would be no, but I used to yes. I felt it VERY important at the time.
Is it ok to just explain this at the end — or maybe I shouldn’t take it?
ETA: I feel like this discussion, though I’m enjoying it and finding it’s made me think of some things I haven't thought about for a while, is for those with body hair or without it by choice.
This is not a bad thing. But I feel very old. Rolls eyes at self: 🙄
One more edit to add:
The quote from Eve Ensler/Vagina Monologues—I never saw it, read it, heard it. Are there points where characters/personas talk about older vaginas?
I think you should take the poll!! I know what you mean, my answers have changed over the last 30 years and I answered it how I felt today, and then wrote lots of feelings in this wonderful comment section 🥰
You bring up a really important part of the conversation!!! And it is interesting and matters and I promise you won’t be alone in your feelings and you will share something new and important. Like you just did!
Thanks for sharing that you feel old.. I felt old taking the poll. Like ‘what? Bleach bums?’😆 But that’s ok. Old matters too. Much love to you 💕❤️
Hey, I completed the survey but totally slept on sharing this poll with my friends. Now I see you're no longer accepting submissions. I wondered if the results might be a bit skewed because of your readership base. I know for sure, I am the only one of 10 female first cousins who does not shave her pubic hair. Well, there is 1 cousin who regularly has a bush, but it's because she's so hairy that to keep with beauty she'd probably have to shave twice daily. Aaanyway, very curious to hear the detailed results.
The poll was shared widely outside of this newsletter (nature of the internet!) and got 14k responses from people of all genders — I’m confident in the data and also interviewed national waxing/lasering services for additional data
Amazing! So happy to hear. I felt so much guilt about not sharing. The results you shared on the podcast are surprising! But in a good / hopefull way.